[Maria-discuss] Moving from Launchpad lists to something else... ?
Hi, I was speaking to Otto (CEO, MariaDB Foundation) and discussing that we should move the lists from Launchpad to something else. We obviously want to preserve the archives, and this isn’t going to happen overnight (something like an aim by the end of the year). Would you be ok with running on Google Groups? Would you prefer being on Mailman? Do you have another self-hosted or (preferably free) hosted solution as your preference? Today, we have several lists (maria-discuss, maria-developers, maria-docs) that are hosted on Launchpad. We also have a few lists (ambassadors, announce, commits, mirroring, maria-buildbot-reports) hosted on Mailman at lists.askmonty.org. Let us know what you think about this Kind Regards, Colin Charles -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist, MariaDB Corporation blog: http://bytebot.net/blog/ | t: +1-347-903-3201 | Skype: colincharles | Twitter: @bytebot
Am 14.10.2015 um 15:08 schrieb Colin Charles:
Hi,
I was speaking to Otto (CEO, MariaDB Foundation) and discussing that we should move the lists from Launchpad to something else. We obviously want to preserve the archives, and this isn’t going to happen overnight (something like an aim by the end of the year).
Would you be ok with running on Google Groups?
Would you prefer being on Mailman?
mailman! just because most other mailing lists are using it
Personal opinion: I know that nowdays we're all subscribed to multiple Google services, but this shouldn't be required to be part of a list. I'd prefer a solution other than Google Groups. Regards Federico -------------------------------------------- Mer 14/10/15, Colin Charles <colin@mariadb.org> ha scritto: Oggetto: [Maria-discuss] Moving from Launchpad lists to something else... ? A: "Maria Discuss (maria-discuss@lists.launchpad.net)" <maria-discuss@lists.launchpad.net>, "MariaDB Developers" <maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net>, maria-docs@lists.launchpad.net Data: Mercoledì 14 ottobre 2015, 15:08 Hi, I was speaking to Otto (CEO, MariaDB Foundation) and discussing that we should move the lists from Launchpad to something else. We obviously want to preserve the archives, and this isn’t going to happen overnight (something like an aim by the end of the year). Would you be ok with running on Google Groups? Would you prefer being on Mailman? Do you have another self-hosted or (preferably free) hosted solution as your preference? Today, we have several lists (maria-discuss, maria-developers, maria-docs) that are hosted on Launchpad. We also have a few lists (ambassadors, announce, commits, mirroring, maria-buildbot-reports) hosted on Mailman at lists.askmonty.org. Let us know what you think about this Kind Regards, Colin Charles -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist, MariaDB Corporation blog: http://bytebot.net/blog/ | t: +1-347-903-3201 | Skype: colincharles | Twitter: @bytebot -----Segue allegato----- _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-discuss Post to : maria-discuss@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-discuss More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
To be able to give the best answer we must first know what is motivating the move from LP. Aside of that, if the already self-hosted lists are working well and you already know how to maintain properly it its probbaly the best course but mail routing (rate-limiting, avoiding blacklisting, possibly using multiple outgoing IPs) might become an issue if the number of subscribers is very important (but it definitely isnt the case ATM, less than 400 for maria-discuss and about the same for maria-developers). Le 14/10/2015 15:08, Colin Charles a écrit :
Hi,
I was speaking to Otto (CEO, MariaDB Foundation) and discussing that we should move the lists from Launchpad to something else. We obviously want to preserve the archives, and this isn’t going to happen overnight (something like an aim by the end of the year).
Would you be ok with running on Google Groups?
Would you prefer being on Mailman?
Do you have another self-hosted or (preferably free) hosted solution as your preference?
Today, we have several lists (maria-discuss, maria-developers, maria-docs) that are hosted on Launchpad. We also have a few lists (ambassadors, announce, commits, mirroring, maria-buildbot-reports) hosted on Mailman at lists.askmonty.org.
Let us know what you think about this
Kind Regards, Colin Charles
On 15 Oct 2015, at 05:35, Jean Weisbuch <jean@phpnet.org> wrote:
To be able to give the best answer we must first know what is motivating the move from LP.
So the reason we were thinking of ditching launchpad for mailing lists: 1. When there was a MariaDB-Manager google group, that group got a lot of user posts about MariaDB Server. That group now no longer exists, but it gave us a hint that people are interested in a Google group 2. We moved everything from Launchpad (bugs to Jira, code to Github) and the only thing remaining is mailing lists 3. The MariaDB Knowledgebase: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/ used to have an OpenID login that would be useful if you had a LP account, but OpenID is apparently going away (or gone), so there’s less use for LP 4. LaunchPad itself seems to be “hard” for people to signup (see #1).
Aside of that, if the already self-hosted lists are working well and you already know how to maintain properly it its probbaly the best course but mail routing (rate-limiting, avoiding blacklisting, possibly using multiple outgoing IPs) might become an issue if the number of subscribers is very important (but it definitely isnt the case ATM, less than 400 for maria-discuss and about the same for maria-developers).
Thanks for this cheers, -colin
Le 14/10/2015 15:08, Colin Charles a écrit :
Hi,
I was speaking to Otto (CEO, MariaDB Foundation) and discussing that we should move the lists from Launchpad to something else. We obviously want to preserve the archives, and this isn’t going to happen overnight (something like an aim by the end of the year).
Would you be ok with running on Google Groups?
Would you prefer being on Mailman?
Do you have another self-hosted or (preferably free) hosted solution as your preference?
Today, we have several lists (maria-discuss, maria-developers, maria-docs) that are hosted on Launchpad. We also have a few lists (ambassadors, announce, commits, mirroring, maria-buildbot-reports) hosted on Mailman at lists.askmonty.org.
Let us know what you think about this
Kind Regards, Colin Charles
_______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-discuss Post to : maria-discuss@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-discuss More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
-- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist, MariaDB Corporation blog: http://bytebot.net/blog/ | t: +1-347-903-3201 | Skype: colincharles | Twitter: @bytebot
On 10/15/15, 5:03 AM, "Maria-discuss on behalf of Colin Charles" <maria-discuss-bounces+fsb=thefsb.org@lists.launchpad.net on behalf of colin@mariadb.org> wrote:
On 15 Oct 2015, at 05:35, Jean Weisbuch <jean@phpnet.org> wrote:
To be able to give the best answer we must first know what is motivating the move from LP.
So the reason we were thinking of ditching launchpad for mailing lists: 1. When there was a MariaDB-Manager google group, that group got a lot of user posts about MariaDB Server. That group now no longer exists, but it gave us a hint that people are interested in a Google group
2. We moved everything from Launchpad (bugs to Jira, code to Github) and the only thing remaining is mailing lists
3. The MariaDB Knowledgebase: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/ used to have an OpenID login that would be useful if you had a LP account, but OpenID is apparently going away (or gone), so there’s less use for LP
4. LaunchPad itself seems to be “hard” for people to signup (see #1).
Good points. Making it easy for people to get involved is important, but if that's the idea then moving to Google Groups isn't a great solution. Apart from it being old and clunky owing to Google's neglect, the insurmountable problem is that it's still an email list at core. Personally, I like email lists best but I'm very old and have been in computing since the 70s, and I accept that most of the rest of the world has moved on. Another problem the Maria community might consider together with the discuss email list is the low quality and participation in the web Q&A of the Knowledge Base. That sometimes makes me sad. There is now a decent open-source system that can function as email list replacement and provide web and mobile Q&A, as well as other stuff: https://www.discourse.org I've used it at New Relic and it seems pretty good. It's got a lot of good stuff and I want to highlight just two. 1. "Mailing List Support - Opt into a special mode where all messages are sent to you via email, exactly like a mailing list. Start new topics via email." 2. You can host it yourself or pay someone you trust to do so. It's not a "free" cloud service where you pay by feeding the internet advertising/surveillance economy. I don't know if Discourse is right for Maria but I wouldn't mention it if I didn't think it might help build a bigger and more active support community, which I long for. Tom
Hello! 2015-10-16 15:42 GMT+03:00 Tom Worster <fsb@thefsb.org>:
There is now a decent open-source system that can function as email list replacement and provide web and mobile Q&A, as well as other stuff: https://www.discourse.org I've used it at New Relic and it seems pretty good. It's got a lot of good stuff and I want to highlight just two.
1. "Mailing List Support - Opt into a special mode where all messages are sent to you via email, exactly like a mailing list. Start new topics via email."
2. You can host it yourself or pay someone you trust to do so. It's not a "free" cloud service where you pay by feeding the internet advertising/surveillance economy.
I don't know if Discourse is right for Maria but I wouldn't mention it if I didn't think it might help build a bigger and more active support community, which I long for.
I looked into the options and also stumbled across Discourse, which indeed seems good and used for example by New Relic. The hosted version is a bit pricey (100 USD per month)[1]. Discourse can also be self-hosted. Mailman is the most common option among open source projects, and the version 3.0 released in April includes new user interfaces for archives and administration, so it finally even looks decent[2]. It took however 7 years to build Mailman 3.0 and is not yet feature complete compared to 2.1, and the components it uses mixes both Python 2.x and Python 3 code. For experience I know Mailman is not easy to maintain and I haven't noticed that anybody would offer it as a hosted version. Other option (ezmlm, Sympa, Majordomo) seem even less attractive. Managing a mailing list or a mail server in general is quite a lot of work due to incoming and possibly even outgoing spam issues, so I'd prefer a hosted version where maintenance is done by somebody who anyway already does at a scale. [1] https://payments.discourse.org/buy/ [2] http://lwn.net/Articles/638090/
participants (6)
-
Colin Charles -
Federico Razzoli -
Jean Weisbuch -
Otto Kekäläinen -
Reindl Harald -
Tom Worster